How Coinflow Makes Payments Settle In Seconds

Money moves at the speed of the slowest rail, and for most businesses, that still means waiting days to get paid. In this episode of What’s Next Beat, host Dante Reminick sits down with Daniel Lev, Founder and CEO of Coinflow, to explore how stablecoin-enabled payment infrastructure can make settlement feel instant while keeping the customer experience as familiar as a traditional dollar balance.

Daniel shares what it was like launching Coinflow during one of crypto’s toughest moments: the same week FTX collapsed, fundraising dried up, and even mentioning stablecoins could make banking conversations more difficult. From there, Dante and Daniel unpack Coinflow’s core model: connecting card networks, bank rails such as ACH, SEPA Instant, and Pix, and crypto networks through a single platform that uses stablecoins as the settlement layer.

The conversation gets into the details that matter most to merchants: how businesses can access funds in seconds even when the underlying payment rail settles later, why liquidity and ledgering are critical, and what Visa’s move toward seven-day stablecoin settlement signals for the future of payments.

Subscribe to Stable Pulse for more conversations on the future of stablecoins, payments infrastructure, and what’s next in fintech.

Connect with the Host and Guest:

Dante Reminik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dante-reminick / https://x.com/DanteReminick

Daniel Lev: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-m-lev/

About Stable Pulse

Stable Pulse is a fast-paced, news-driven podcast covering the most important developments shaping the stablecoin and digital asset ecosystem. Each episode dives into timely conversations with industry leaders, operators, and policymakers, offering sharp insights and real-world perspectives on where the market is heading. With a focus on clarity and relevance, Stable Pulse breaks down complex topics into accessible, actionable takeaways for anyone building in or exploring the future of finance.

Transcript

Intro

Intro 0:00

Passage of the stable coin legislation drafted by the Senate, dubbed the Genius Act. Because analysts say a wave of competition can complicate things. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a very special guest today. This guest is a personal friend of mine who is an incredible founder and, in my opinion, an even better person. He's built a very powerful stablecoin enabled PSP, which is a payment service provider. So, Dan, welcome to the show, man. I'm excited to have you and I'm excited to chat Coinflow.

Daniel Lev 0:35

Excited to be here, bright and early. Favorite thing to do is Friday morning talk stablecoins.

Dante Reminick 0:42

Nothing better to do. Nothing

Origins Of Coinflow

Dante Reminick 0:44

better. So as you know, Dan, we always start out this show with a segment that we call braggadocious. This is your opportunity to brag about yourself, to brag about Coinflow. I know that you are a very, very humble person, but I want you to not be a very humble person. Tell us everything about you, everything about Coinflow, and do so in the most braggadocious way possible, please.

Daniel Lev 1:08

Great, yeah, yeah. Um Midwest guys, so tr try to be it's humble, humble by roots. Um, but yeah, I'm Daniel, founder and CEO of Coinflow. My background has been basically a financial service in my whole career. Um, from PWC, where I was doing strategy for financial services, went and helped in scale of InTech from early stage series A until it became a unicorn series D. Started a gaming company. I built, sales, and sold that business. During that time at the gaming company, we were running contests for games, and people needed to get it paid out faster. We found out about stable coins pretty damn early, like this is 2021, and realized this is the best way to do programmatic payouts, but no one had access to or no one had ability to spend or use stable coins. So we then had to connect stable coins to real-time payment rails, and then realized you connect stable coins to payment networks that move instantly. You've now created this conduit and uh between real-time payment networks to allow businesses to move money instantly. So we sold that business, realizing like, wow, like we built this mini super powerful fintech inside of it and can give that same value prop to any business, which is move money instantly. And when you move money instantly, there's other problems that arise, like fraud. It's clear, it's great for businesses and users if you can get their money instantly. Um, but it's also great for fraudsters to get their money instantly. So, on top of that, we build incredible fraud tools that indemnify chargebacks and stop fraud. So, what Coinflow does is we enable payments to move instantly for businesses. So instead of waiting for money to come to you in one or two day business days, you get in five seconds. And we eliminate all chargebacks. Um, in regards to like the bragging part of the section, we between between cards, which is still arguably the biggest way for consumers to pay businesses, um, or it is not arguably, it is, um we move the most stable coins between car between accepting cards, settlement to merchants and stable coins by far, and are scaling very quickly. So we're definitely the category leader in the space of accepting real-time payment networks and traditional payment networks, and instantly settling funds to merchants and stable coins, and letting those stable coins be used. So spend, payout, etc. So yeah, that's a bit about us. Thousands of merchants, uh hundreds of different use cases, and been doing this for quite some time now.

Dante Reminick 3:29

Love it. I have a million questions and a million different sort of routes that I want

Building Through The FTX Fallout

Dante Reminick 3:35

to take here. But I want to start at the very beginning. You launched Coinflow because you personally experienced the problem building your last startup, but you also launched it at what many believe to be the worst possible time in the world to launch a crypto company or launch a uh you know a stablecoin startup. Tell me about what it was like sort of in the early days of building out this hybrid sort of payment company and crypto company in a time that was very, very hostile towards both of those uh categories.

Daniel Lev 4:11

Yeah, I mean I mean the sh the short answer is it sucked. Um but like that uh in hindsight it's it's also great. Because we we built built things that you it's you can't build that kind of team team spirit. You get the insights, you get really good feedback from early customers. And yeah, I mean look, we started a company, we sold the my last business around the same like the deal got final, the deal got ink the term sheet the same week FTX collapsed, and I stepped down as CEO, or I was like running both in parallel and started Coinflow the week of the FTX collapse, and our first funding round collapsed like because people didn't know it was we were raising crypto VCs and they didn't know if they were alive or their portfolio was live. And up raising capital pretty quickly after that. But it was tough. Like most people were it was pretty much crickets. Um, I've never seen the capital markets like that where people didn't even know if their if like they didn't know if their fund was exist gonna be exist alive, what happened, etc. So that was interesting first first few weeks. Usually don't start your company like, oh great, I'm gonna go to market, and like all the people that I have connections with, they're gonna at least want to have conversations and see what we're doing. And it it was just complete crickets that like people were not responding, they were you know, FTX Loom was over there. So once we got through that, which is an interesting fundraising environment, once we got through that, it was you know, we had bank relationships from the last company, but it started pe everyone started questioning like crypto. No one really knew about stable coins, so it was explaining what a stable coin was over and over and over again. And yeah, there was not many people that were bullish on the idea of connecting traditional financial rails to stable coins uh after FTX collapse, and crypto was a very naughty word. Anything adjacent to crypto was very, very bad. And it that extended for you know months and months and months, and then there was other crypto downfalls that happened as well. Um but at the same time through that whole period, there were people that were still like obviously building in crypto, and those were our early customers. Uh uh a big mental shift happened, at least for my what I saw, is like, okay, like like crypto is the the retail consumer does not believe in crypto right now, the banks don't believe in crypto right now, etc. So what people that who are founders who are building this space were like, okay, we have to be able to like use the technology and leverage it to be able to differentiate to our consumers, but without saying the word crypto, etc. So, like in that essence, Coinflow is perfect because what we do is we don't talk about outside of like the name coin being being in our name, we don't talk about crypto, we don't talk about stable coins. We just give value props like, hey, we we help businesses move money faster. And there's unique flows of funds that this is extremely beneficial. Marketplaces, gamified commerce, um, gaming, remittance, etc. And there were founders that were not many, but there were founders at the time that were building in that space. So we had a great cohort of like beta customers for like, okay, we actually really need this product right now because we need to limit all things of crypto, but we still need value props to go and compete in the market. So we were able to really build our product around those types of folks and get those insights that no one else would has been able to get or can get, and just compound our product on top of that. And that's why we're we're we're we're where we're at. Um, but yeah, there was not many folks being able to provide that infrastructure or wanting to use it, but it was the best set of beta cohort customers you could possibly get. And it only sparked and fueled our um our passion because we had people at the very, very bottom of the market. Well, at least we felt like how much worse could this get? Like it's if this isn't ext existential, like nothing probably is. And we had people paying and wanting to use our product and had more demand, um, and we could service. So there was this like ace asymmetric upside of like of alpha that we had as Coinflow. Like, okay, people want this in like the depth of the bear, and they're using it for non-crypto use cases and competing against businesses that are not crypto native and winning because of the because of things that we're able to do in blockchain technology, etc. So we're like, okay, every business will eventually want this. And you know, that's that's starting to play out um over the last few years.

Dante Reminick 8:47

So

A Network Of Networks Explained

Dante Reminick 8:48

you guys launched late 2022 during the collapse of FTX and you know the entire crypto space. Now, you know, fast forward 2026. What is it, what does Coinflow look like now? Can you walk us through sort of how Coinflow works in the back end? To your point, you advertise yourself as a payment company, not as a crypto company. Like I've gone to your website, I encourage other people to go to your website. You do not advertise crypto whatsoever. You advertise yourself as a payment company. As a payment company today, what are those flows like? How are you guys using stable coins? Give us the high level there.

Daniel Lev 9:24

Yeah, for sure. So, really what Coinflow is, we are a next gen PSP, and another word for that is a network of networks. So we connect to different payment networks. You can think of this as like, you know, I have a bought a coffee this morning, so a card networks visa mastercard MX, bank networks in the US, we have ACH, in Europe you have Sepa, in Brazil, you have Pix. Some are instant, some are not, um, which we can talk about. But society payment networks. So card networks, bank networks, crypto networks is like a payment network, like stablecoins and crypto is just a payment network, Venmo, and no matter what payment network a user wants to pay with to a business. So if for that coffee, 500 pay with my Venmo balance, 500 pay with my UK bank account, 500 pay with my Visa card, Coinflow will accept that. And as soon as the payment's authorized, meaning like, hey, like there's you know, the network says there's money on that fund, on that account, we will instantly move that money in stable coins to the merchant. The merchant will receive that money and can do whatever they want with that money. Um, so that that's how Coinflow works. Those payment networks sometimes settle to us in one day, sometimes in five seconds, etc. And what we are seeing is payment networks are moving for faster settlement, whether that you know, and faster is relative. Some payment networks are already instant, some faster is like, okay, we've only settled historically five days a week. Now we're gonna do seven. And um, this is like an example of what Visa is doing, and they're leaving the pack for card networks. And you know what they're doing for seven-day settlement is in stable coins. So this we've created this middle layer where it's like uh think about as a middleware where we have liquidity, fraud, and ledgering to connect to these networks. And if they're not instant, which most aren't, we will then bridge that gap via stable coins and move the funds instantly. And the thesis is that more and more of these networks will go towards faster settlement times. Hopefully that's instant. But there will need to be this layer that does this F-axis ledgering and this settlement out to the to the merchants, and that's gonna be in stable coins because that's the only way to atomically meaning which atomically means per transaction, um, in that moment, move funds instantly.

Dante Reminick 11:41

So you guys essentially provide composability to disparate payment systems, and you do so through the mechanism of stable coins. Is that fair to say?

Daniel Lev 11:52

That's fair, that's exactly fair to say. And the yeah, that's exactly fair to say. And one thing to call out there is like disparate payment networks, they're only getting more disparate, and there's only more networks coming out. You're starting to see that some of these crypto networks are are becoming like, you know, they want to have become payment networks. They're seeing some digital global wallets becoming payment networks. Um Venmo, for example, in the US, is becoming more and more of a payment network itself, and they're starting to compete with the card brands. By now, pay letter layers are becoming like their own payment networks. Um, so there's more and more of these networks coming out, and commerce is also becoming more global. So by definition, this is becoming more disparate, and everything has different um settlement times, even if it's not, you know, it might be minutes, might be hours, might be days, but the merchant doesn't want to care, figure out like, you know, how do we have this crazy business logic on like how do we release goods, how do we give someone something, how do I pay my vendors? So Coinflow is like, hey, we'll give you everything instantly. We'll worry about this all about the composability, fraud, ledgering, et cetera.

Dante Reminick 13:08

Interesting.

Instant Payouts Before Funds Settle

Dante Reminick 13:09

So to repeat and clarify, you guys take in funds from any number of payment systems, card networks, ACH, right, you name it. You guys take those funds, convert them into stable coins, and then pass those stable coins to whoever the recipient might be, whether it be a merchant, a merchant, a supplier, a vendor. Are you guys waiting for those funds to settle? Like to your point, if I send a wire, that might take two to three days. I actually have to send a wire for the first time in a very long time yesterday. It sucked. Like every time I have to interact with the traditional banking system, it makes me more uh appreciative of stable coins. But are you guys paying out those stable coins before the funds settle? Or how do you guys manage that counterparty risk there?

Daniel Lev 13:55

Yeah, that's right. We pay it out before they settle. So wire is a bad example because it's not like it's B2B payments mainly. We don't we we can do it, but let's let's remove wires from this and like dude, just call it ACH. Once we link your account and scan it, we'll pull the payment or authorize the pull. And our algorithm will say, like, hey, yeah, we we have really high confidence that you know there's finality in this payment, or there will be finality in this payment, and we release funds. And then in a day we get those funds, or two days we get those funds, and then rebalance this pool of stable coins we have. Um so that that is something that like we provide as a service. And the reason we have to do that is because some of these payment networks are slower than others. For example, like Visa's five days a week right now, it'll be seven. We already have this gap that can fulfill those funds um faster, but there's other payment networks that are instant, like we connect to um instant SEPA. So if you send me a SEPA payment, I can convert it into stable coins in five seconds. The SEPA might have arrived in 15 or 20 seconds or a minute, but it's more or less instant. Same with Pix in Brazil. Um so yeah, some payment networks are are slower than others, and we have to account for that.

Dante Reminick 15:13

And are you guys when you take in the funds, convert it to stable coins, are you then settling directly in stable coins with the end recipient, or are you converting that back into a fiat rail before you settle?

Daniel Lev 15:28

We we directly settle to our businesses, which are merchants in stable coins. Um, but I'd say like the biggest but in the caveat is like imagine your banking app, whatever whoever you use, or like your neo banking app, you know, call us Ven calls Venmo, China, whoever, right? If you have one Cash App, right? Um those funds are stored in you know in the fintech world, what's called an FBO for benefit of account. And it's it's not, you know, you you probably don't even know what bank that's at, right? So it's just being ledgered somewhere and displayed to you in a UI and saying, like, hey, these funds are here. The dollars are in some bank you don't even know, they're in the terms of service. I mean, you you can find out, but most people don't know or care. And that's kind of the UI that we provide. It's like, hey, these funds are actually in a wallet from like an infrastructure technical perspective, but from an end user experience perspective, it just looks like fiat or dollars on the screen. It doesn't say like, hey, USDC, blah, blah, blah. It just shows, hey, you have this balance. Sure, it happens to be in stable coins. And if you want to withdraw that balance, which you can do programmatically, asynchronously, or manually, you go on your platform just like you would, like our coin flow platform, just like you would on any banking app. It says your dollars. And just how you sent this wire this morning, it says, like, hey, withdraw. And it asks you, like, do you want to withdraw to a bank account? Do you want to withdraw to a wallet? Do you want to withdraw on stable coins? So it actually looks like when you're withdrawing stable coins, it you can perceive it as almost like a conversion, even though it's like already there in staked. Um, but yeah, we we let we display the balance in in a way that it shows us fiat, even if you ping our API. But under the hood, it's recorded as stable coins, and they are stable coins. So if you want to withdraw it in stable coins, you can. If you want to draw it in fiat, you can. Um but we we really do stress in the user experience that it looks like something they're already familiar with, because by far the majority of our customers don't know or care about stable coins, and it would confuse them.

Dante Reminick 17:30

Yeah, 100%.

Card MCC Codes And Crypto Friction

Dante Reminick 17:32

And when I look at Coinflow, to me, one of your superpowers is your ability to interact with card networks. And this might be getting too much into the weeds, but for our audience members, anytime you use your credit card, Visa, MasterCard, Amex, whatever it is, and you swipe that card or tap it or whatever it might be, there is a what's called an MCC code that essentially tells the credit card company what type of good or service you are interacting with. And historically, it is very, very difficult to use a credit card to buy stable coins in any way, shape, or form. Like the conversion rates are very, very low because of what we call MCC 6051 that essentially tells your credit card, hey, you are buying crypto, right? This is a higher risk transaction than normal. So the conversion rates are very, very low. You guys, on the other hand, are masters at working with these card networks and have sort of found a way to uh to overcome the challenge of MCC 6051. Tell me more about that.

Daniel Lev 18:34

Yeah, look, I mean, if you're selling crypto or selling stable coins, like there's no way to get around your MCC60 or 5.1. But as I said, most of our businesses aren't crypto businesses, and and the arc not the argument, but like the matter of fact is that they're not MCC is merchant category code, which in in layman terms means like, hey, what is a merchant selling and what should this be qualified as? If you're selling someone coffee, it should be like you know, beverages, right? If you're selling someone cookies, it should be food. If you're selling someone stable coins, it should be crypto. Um and that's that's exactly how we work. We are settling in stable coins, which is a currency. It's no different than like, hey, the cookie shop wants pesos because you know they're located in Mexico. So as a PSP, the merchant category code should be segregated from what a settlement currency is. And that's exactly how we interact and educate the card nowers and banks. It's like, hey, like what the merchant is selling is MCC, settlement currency, which can be you know pesos, which there can be like peso-back stable coins, right? Um, or US dollar stable coins. That is totally segregated and different than what the merchant is selling. Like if we are selling stable coins, we'll still code that as 6051, etc. But ultimately we're following the same principles and first principles that any other PSP is like what is the merchant selling? We will describe them as that to the card networks because that's what they care about. And settlement we'll do in the most efficient ways possible possible, which we believe is stable coins.

Winning Bank Trust After Stablecoin Fear

Dante Reminick 20:08

You have mentioned a few times the word convincing a bank. I know from our past conversations you've had to do a lot of convincing banks. Can you tell everyone a little bit about sort of the relationship that you have with banks, what you need to convince them of, what that journey is like, etc., etc.?

Daniel Lev 20:27

I mean, yeah, just what what I stated is like, you know, it might make sense to you, but when someone two years ago, three years ago heard stablecoin, they weren't thinking about like, oh, this could actually be used for settlement, it might be better. They just heard like risk, you know, in their risk compliance training, like, hey, if you hear crypto or stable coin, flag it. Um, and that that's that's all they they heard. So getting past that and explaining like why we're doing this, the use cases, how it is beneficial, why we're not selling crypto, but hey, like the users I the merchants are actually selling coffee. And the reason we're selling stable coins is because it's Friday, and I just bought this coffee, and the the Barista doesn't get tipped out till Tuesday because it takes two days for the card network to settle, and then another day for ACH. But if we get in stable coins, they can get their money on a Friday and use it for whatever they need. Um, so that's that was the the challenge, right? Like people didn't want to understand it because they just had alarms go off. Now, because we have the traction we have, the volume we have, and and stable coins are not evil anymore, they're like actually, hey, we need to have this it went 180 completely, like a year and a half ago, year about a year ago. Um where it went from if you say stable coins like flag it and figure out why they're doing something illegal, to like, oh my god, if we're not doing if we don't have stable coins. Strategy we're behind. So now it's not really convincing, it's actually helping the banks understand how they can use it and partner with us, which is like a crazy paradigm shift from like, hey, like, trust me, dude, we are doing something innovative. And let me explain why. To like being like, hey, like, I don't have time to explain to all these people that want to work with us how they can partner and work with us.

Dante Reminick 22:22

Interesting. So have you had to go bank by bank to say, hey, you know, you're an acquiring bank for customers that we work with, you know, this is our flow, make sure to approve these transactions, or what does that relationship actually look like?

Daniel Lev 22:38

Um, no, not that, because that's the issuing banks' responsibility. It's more like the card networks acquiring banks to trust this flow exists. So, like, if someone does ask, they can echo the same level of confidence and explanation that you know Coinflow has internally, which takes time, right? Um, train the trainer. And yeah, I I mean I years ago, it was more just like describing what we're doing, and when there is a cloud over the industry and there is not many use cases live, and it's very innovative, and then negative connotations, then it's more just like, hey, like trust us, this is like we're actually good characters, and this will a time will come where like stable coins are a thing that matter, um, which also gives credibility, right? Like, if we were doing that three, four years, like three years ago, um, when no one else wasn't, it's not like hey, like we we're doing stable coins now because stable coins are cool. It's like no, no, we had conviction the whole time and we we are pioneers in leading from the front.

Fraud Models And Chargeback Finality

Dante Reminick 23:46

Yeah. You you've mentioned trust a lot. We also talked briefly about chargebacks, but that's one of the biggest, I would say, pushbacks to stable coins right now is around fraud and chargebacks and things like that. You guys have navigated this in a really unique way, in my opinion. Can you talk a little bit about how you guys are able to secure these types of transactions and to guarantee that type of trust that most of these credit card companies have worked to build?

Daniel Lev 24:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, finality matters, right? Like in Sablecoin is a beauty, like there's finality in transactions, meaning as soon as you get it, it's yours, 100% guaranteed. Um, so we've had a build out with the traditional networks, and what that looks like is just like a really comprehensive fraud model that can predict if a transaction is going to be fraudulent or not and be charged back. And when our model is confidence, which it does a high majority of the times, we'll approve the transaction and guarantee finality.

Dante Reminick 24:51

Got it. So you guys are able to deal with the risk of chargebacks and fraud and and whatnot, which I I think is super awesome. So we've talked about a lot like what Coinflow's capabilities are.

Best Use Cases And Customer Demand

Dante Reminick 25:02

Who are the people that are best leveraging this right now? Like when you think of the ideal client comes to you and says, Hey, please help me with this, who are those people that are coming to you and what do they need help with?

Daniel Lev 25:15

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There is there's a lot, thankfully. Um, I would say the superset is complex flow of funds. And arguably, like all flows of funds, and I mean this is a fintech podcast, people know what flows of funds are. But for the ones who are not fintech and listening, flows of funds is just describe me how money moves. And as commerce is more global and there's more parties involved, as AI gets involved, agents, whatever, right? Not even agents, but like gig economy, whatever, anything, there's more people that are touching the mix in the money. And if the money's moving slowly, there's more people involved, that creates a lot of complications. So, like a superset is complex flows of funds. Um what industries this means? Any marketplace. So, this this can be a marketplace for selling cookies online, it can be for selling t-shirts, uh, shoes, watches, whatever, right? Um, reminiscent fintech, that's like a huge category for stable coins, crypto, etc. Um, gaming is a big category. And then we're starting to do a lot in travel, travel's global, same thing. And then vertical SaaS, anything from you know, restaurant software, etc., is another area. So basically every category, right? People want their money faster. Um, flows of funds are getting more complicated. We're seeing demand and market pull across so many industries. And now, especially with AI and AI like commerce, where right now the use case that we're seeing is like, hey, top up into a wallet which needs finality and instant settlement, so then the ages can go do a bunch of stuff. And this isn't like crypto wallet, it's just like wallet that has access to funds. And stablecoin wallet underneath is the perfect example of this, where like Coinflow can pull those funds, instantly fulfill them, and then the Aegis go do whatever.

Dante Reminick 27:06

Yeah, I I think you you touched on a really important point, which is no one is ever going to want their money slower, right? No one is ever going to want higher fees on moving money around. And you guys have sort of built your entire company on those basic principles of hey, we are going to consistently work at making your money move faster, making your money move cheaper, and you know, simplifying the flow of funds there, uh, which again, I think is super, super critical to your success. I I find it interesting that you sort of publicly position yourself against a lot of really, really big companies like Stripe and WorldPay and everything like that. You guys are growing rapidly. You're seeing a lot of success. What can you do better than a lot of the incumbents in the space, I would say.

Daniel Lev 27:58

What do we do better? Um yeah, I mean, look, like it give you your money faster. You get to keep all your money instead of losing it to fraud. And we we work with multiple banks to orchestrate payments in a way that gives you more revenue. Um so all the all three of those things, which is like, you know, that compounds to make the business a lot more money, which and yeah, that's that's really it.

Dante Reminick 28:28

Easy peasy. Easy peasy. I love it. I love it. And one thing that I found interesting about Coinflow is like you guys are a stablecoin company. You help people move money around the world with stable coins and you provide the utility of stable coins to others, but you as a company are also using stable coins to provide utility to yourself. Uh, can you talk a little bit more about how Coinflow is using stable coins to improve its own operations?

Daniel Lev 28:59

Yeah, I mean, anyone who wants to accept stable coins for pre-funding for s or settlement, um we love those partners the most because then it's like all real time everywhere. And you know, some innovative banks like Crossroad Bank who we're partnering with um are starting to do that. So yeah, I mean it's internal treasury operations, really, is like where where we're seeing the most increase. But as time goes on, you know, settlement will happen in stablecoins, these networks receiving the funds will happen in stable coins. So then like our middleware ledger already has that built in. Um, so we're kind of already future-proofing, and we're starting to see slowly this trickle of networks either accept stable coins for settlement or for payout funding.

Dante Reminick 29:49

So you you are seeing a demand in companies that either want to accept stable coins without you know the ramps or pay out directly in stable coins. Is that is that correct? Yeah, yeah, that's correct. And is there a type of archetype or use case for people that are you know natively accepting stable coins or that want to settle in stable coins, or is it across the board?

Daniel Lev 30:12

It's it's user pull, right? If the company has users that want this, so I think like r places where stablecoin options are big, uh Nigeria, places in Latam, etc. Then inherently they're like, yeah, just give it to me in stablecoins. My users already want to hold in stable coins or whatever. Um that's really it. And more and more of that is happening.

Dante Reminick 30:37

Is it happening in a specific part of the world, you think, or all over?

Daniel Lev 30:40

I would say all over, all over, because we had a big prediction market that wants to settle in stable coins because they have market makers on the prediction market that will accept stable coins in between because they know it's efficient for trading. Um so I would say it's all over, but the you the reasons are different. Like some is retail demand, some is business demand from sophisticated players in the US, right? Um, but it's all over for sure.

Expansion Plans And Industry Tailwinds

Dante Reminick 31:10

Interesting. And what are you guys obsessing over at Coinflow every single day? I know you're being smothered by demand. You know, everyone wants better, faster, cheaper money to our point before. But what are you guys focused on building? What's the next mountain that you guys need to climb?

Daniel Lev 31:26

Yeah, I mean, we've we've connected a good amount of payment networks. Um there's many more geographies and regions we need to go into to make this like global payment network. Um, so that that's what we're doing. And then we are, I mean, it's an interesting time to be alive in terms of building stuff for sure. Um and it's really cool to see all these use cases, net new use cases in industries pop up that we can service. Um yeah, vertical expansion, geography expansion, et cetera, is what our main two focuses.

Dante Reminick 31:57

And when it comes to integrating new payment networks, do you see these payment networks themselves actually start to use stable coins? Like I personally I know Visa has a stablecoin team, MasterCard has a stablecoin team, uh, Western Union has a stablecoin team, MoneyGram, like all of these sort of disparate payment companies are now, to your point, forced to start to take stablecoins seriously. Does that make your job easier, or is that a threat to you guys?

Daniel Lev 32:24

No, no, no, not a threat. It makes our job easier. Um, like I said, we're we're in we're a network of networks. Like we want to, you know, if the coffee shop wants to accept MoneyGram as like a wallet type, can I having Moneygram send me the money in two or three days via fiat rails is way worse than like accepting MoneyGram as a wallet type and being like, hey, MoneyGram actually has instant availability and can send Coinflow stable coins. That's beautiful. That's great. Um, so yeah, we're in this unique position where we're not competing with all these players. We're actually like help we want to be able to aggregate all of them in the best way possible for our businesses and move money and allow those businesses to accept money instantly.

Dante Reminick 33:04

Got it. So your inertia only increases as more people adopt stable coins. It seems like what I'm noticing from you know talking to various people around the industry is that the more stablecoin adoption happens, the easier it is simply because the hardest part of stablecoin payments is always the first and last mile, right? Is converting from fiat to stable coins. But if things start in stable coins, you're sort of solving that that first and and last mile issue. Yeah. Is that is that correct? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Cool. Cool.

Closing Thoughts

Dante Reminick 33:38

I love it. So you're seeing a demand of stable coins come up. You're seeing you know, more and more people want to move their money better, faster, cheaper. What are the biggest challenges that you guys are facing? To your point, probably not regulatory anymore. We've seen a lot of a lot of action, at least in the United States, on that. People are starting to trust stable coins more. What are the biggest headwinds that you're facing?

Daniel Lev 34:01

Uh I think the hardest challenge challenge of like growing a hyper-growth business is like hiring. Like you want to be able to get the best people. It's a long journey. Um, but you also need people to fulfill this this demand. Um, so that's the biggest thing. So that's like if you guys, if you know anyone, if anyone's listening that wants a job at a rocket ship, like please please reach out. We're hiring every position.

Dante Reminick 34:26

Well, what position every position?

Daniel Lev 34:27

Every position.

Dante Reminick 34:28

Across the full stack? All right. If you if you need a job, find Dan. That's right. But only only if you're good. Dan, I can tell you this for a fact, has very, very high standards on on hiring, as he should. So only if you have elite ball knowledge should you should you go to Coinflow and ask for a job.

Daniel Lev 34:47

Ball knowers only.

Dante Reminick 34:49

Ball knowers only. You heard it. Awesome. Dan, you're the man. I I really appreciate you coming on the show. I know that we've had these conversations in the past, and we're going to continue to have these types of conversations, but I'm glad that we finally got to recording it for our audience. I hope that you found this interesting, and I highly recommend that you check out Coinflow at Coinflow.cash. And uh, as always, stay stable.