What’s Next in Stablecoins: Payments, Yield, and Global Scale with Modern Treasury

In the first episode of the What’s Next beat for Stable Pulse, host Dante Reminick sits down with Dan Mottice and Dimitri Dadiomov of Modern Treasury to break down where stablecoins actually fit in today’s payment stack. From cross border friction and delayed settlement to the persistence of legacy systems, they explore why ACH, wires, and cards are not going anywhere and how stablecoins function as an additional rail rather than a full replacement.

They also unpack the “stablecoin sandwich” model, moving from fiat to on chain and back to fiat, and what that means for real world global payments. The conversation covers orchestration across rails, compliance considerations, and how treasury teams can start thinking about practical adoption today.

Subscribe to Stable Pulse for more conversations on the future of stablecoins, payments infrastructure, and what’s next in fintech.

Connect with the Hosts & Guest

Dante Reminik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dante-reminick / https://x.com/DanteReminick

Dimitri Dadiomov: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dadiomov/ / https://x.com/dadiomov

Dan Mottice: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mottice/ / https://x.com/mottice

About Stable Pulse

Stable Pulse is a fast-paced, news-driven podcast covering the most important developments shaping the stablecoin and digital asset ecosystem. Each episode dives into timely conversations with industry leaders, operators, and policymakers, offering sharp insights and real-world perspectives on where the market is heading. With a focus on clarity and relevance, Stable Pulse breaks down complex topics into accessible, actionable takeaways for anyone building in or exploring the future of finance.

Transcript

Intro

Intro 0:00

The passage of the stablecoin legislation drafted by the Senate, dubbed the Genius Act, because analysts say a wave of competition can complicate things.

Dante Reminick 0:13

Welcome to the Stable Pulse. We got Dan and Dimitri from Modern Treasury today. I want to start off just with some basic intros for the people who do not know you guys. And I want to do something a little bit different considering your backgrounds. Dan, I want to start with you, and I actually don't want to start with Modern Treasury. I want to start with Beam. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about why you started Beam? And then we can dive in to fill in on some context in a second.

Dan Mottice 0:40

Yeah, for sure. And uh thank you for having us on the podcast. Um yeah, as Dante said, my name's Dan. Uh I previously was the founder of a company called Beam, um, which I worked on for about four years before we decided to join forces with uh the modern treasury team in October of this past year. Um and yeah, since then I've been working very closely with Dimitri and the rest of the modern treasury team for the last six months, um, working on stuff that we'll share a lot more about, I think, a little bit later in the in the pod. Um but to give you a little bit of context of myself, I I've been in payments for uh all of my career actually. Um I started my career at Visa, a very large car network, which a lot of people have probably heard of. Um mostly focused on uh kind of lower level settlement plumbing uh and and building capabilities that allowed for Visa, the network, to um both explore and then also utilize alternative ways of settling value across the network. Um so did that for a long while, mostly focused on cross-border uh use cases. Um and I mentioned that because in doing so, that's kind of where I cut my teeth on on stable coins and became stablecoin pilled, as they say. Um this was in probably like 2020 or so. Um but the TLDR is that we were launching a new product uh that I was supporting called Visa Direct. And um we had purchased a company for Visa Direct that allowed for uh Visa Direct, which is a payout product, to pay out value to uh bank accounts that aren't actually linked to VisaNet. So won't go too deeply into the plumbing there, but um, when it came time to settle the value from A to B, uh, where Visa doesn't govern the full network, it was very complicated because there's a bunch of different domestic and cross-border systems around the world that have been stitched together. And Visa is one way of unifying that, but there's plenty of other ways to do it. Um and so stable coins were uh an option through which the, you know, the big money movers like Visa could do this. And at the time, stable coins were nowhere near uh in a place where Visa could, you know, participate and utilize these tools. And so I uh I jumped out of Visa to start a company that could simplify uh, you know, the the entry and exit to and from stable coins for more traditional businesses, whether that be merchants, whether that be other payment services platforms, or whether that be networks or other payment participant players like Visa. Um broadly speaking, there wasn't really much infrastructure that was centered around payments as a use case just yet. Um yeah, and then build built for about four years and fast forward and here we are. But uh I will stop there. Uh and yeah, happy to go deeper on any of that or can hand it off to Dimitri.

Dante Reminick 3:20

Yeah, we're we're definitely gonna dive deeper for now. Dimitri, I want you to take it away. Same question. Tell us about yourself, modern treasury, specifically around you know what problem you were looking to solve when starting Modern Treasury.

Dimitri Dadiomov 3:33

Yeah, so we started Modern Treasury in 2018, and really my the three co-founders, Matt, Sam, and I, um, we all worked together before at an online mortgage company, and we had this problem of how do you move money as a web kind of company doing something in an industry that isn't really e-commerce driven. It's really driven by bankrails. And so any kind of industry that was running on ACHY or check, RTP, et cetera, um, didn't have very good dev tooling for it. And so really we were focused on how do you enable anybody who's building uh a ProctoPoop's money to get started very easily. And it was very much fiat uh in focus, uh, but it was very developer focused as well. And so we saw even early on, we saw a lot of people kind of experimenting with crypto rails. But yeah, the focus was very much on an A good API, a good payments API for moving money that would integrate to different banks.

Dante Reminick 4:29

Awesome. Awesome. I think you guys both I think right now are one of the companies that I see deepest in in this payments field, but both of you also

Why Stablecoins Matter To Operators

Dante Reminick 4:40

talk about stable coins quite a bit. I want to get a better understanding of why you are using stable coins. Like fundamentally speaking, you're rudded you're running a treasury and payment company. There are plenty of treasury companies out there and plenty of payment companies out there that operate without touching stable coins in any way, shape, or form. Why do you guys touch stable coins? Why did you make stable coins a foundational part of your solution? And this is for for either of you.

Dimitri Dadiomov 5:05

Maybe I'll start. Um, from our from the perspective of a large company moving money over fiat, uh there's a lot of there's a lot of pain points that have been there for a century around how do you connect to banks, the actual interface, the technical interface, but connected to banks, the costs and timings and uh kind of complexity of doing that across different financial institutions and across geographies and across borders. Uh and I think that there's been a lot of innovation going back to really the Bitcoin paper to start with on the blockchain, um of being able to move money using these crypto rails. But for a long time, there was not a stablecoin concept of being able to move that in a in a in a dollar-backed kind of stable way, if you will, right? So there's all this um uh all this innovation around crypto, but it was in some ways unusable from a from a treasury or payments perspective because it was just, you know, there's a there's too much movement of uh the value of an asset. It's very difficult to kind of do that from a UX perspective. It's difficult to be able to tell somebody, here's how much money we're gonna have arriving at a certain place when your underlying asset is kind of moving all around. And so I think that there's been a real breakthrough over the past couple of years with the popularization, if you will, of stable coins and the ability to be able to use them and having liquidity around it. Um there's a lot of promise in solving a lot of these problems I mentioned up front, which is how do you actually, you know, how do you actually do this across different borders and across different financial institutions? And so that's that's really why we're investing in it, is we see a lot of potential in it. And Dave can speak uh to it as well. But um it's a problem that every company has, and either they're solving it with engineers or with operators who are doing things manually. And um we can we can simplify that.

Dan Mottice 6:59

I would echo what Dimitri mentioned. I think to harken back to the kind of opening salvo, so to speak, um, it's really fascinating once you get on the inside of the massive payments companies like Visa and you know, similar at MasterCard and other large institutions that have moved a bunch of money over the years, um, just what the settlement infrastructure looks like under the hood. Um, and a lot of a lot of settlement still happens through very old school processes, very simply. And I think people talk about it uh at a very high level in in stablecoin land and and more broadly, like as stable coins are entering the mainstream, like it's become an acknowledged theme. But um I I view it as kind of hand-wavy in many cases. That said, uh if you if you really dissect how it all works, like it it just it's one of those kind of technological evolutions that just make sense. There naturally needed to be a superior way to move liquidity and value around the world. And in my head, um like digital payment processing has entered the the kind of mainstream era, but settlement has not. And so I I see stable stable coins and kind of tokenization of liquidity broadly as a way through which um like the second part of that stack can enter the kind of like internet era, if that makes sense.

Dante Reminick 8:17

Well, well, tell me more about that, right? You mentioned

Card Settlement Delays And Swift

Dante Reminick 8:20

that there are settlement ways, there are settlement means right now that are still really old-fashioned. What are those very specific settlement means and where do stable coins add additional functionality to that process?

Dan Mottice 8:32

Yeah, so I to keep it in the card network example, because that's where I started, um, if you think about what the card networks do, they allow for people to go buy something at a brick and mortar store or at an e-commerce storefront, basically from any merchant in the world now. Um, however, to settle the value, i.e., to make that merchant whole for the good that the consumer has walked away with or the service that the consumer has walked away with, um, oftentimes it takes a while uh to move the money. Uh in a domestic context, for example, so if I'm buying something from a local bodega in New York City or sandwich slot in San Francisco, that settlement can happen pretty quickly. Um, and it doesn't really hurt the merchant, so to speak. But when you extrapolate and you say, hey, what would what if Dan were traveling to uh Europe or Brazil or somewhere else, um, and you add a bunch of different hops and a bunch of different like complexities as it relates to local regulation and local banking setups and local money movement schemes and holidays, ultimately that leads to delays in how quickly the money moves from like my account when I tap my card to the merchant's account in Europe or Brazil or other markets in that example. Um, and the reason for that is is because it relies on uh on basically like international wires at the end of the day. And so if you unbundle what Visa does in this case, they they basically um aggregate a bunch of transactions and then they execute a bunch of cross-border wires to move money across the network. Um and that, I mean, so point being it basically relies on Swift still at the end of the day. Um what do stable coins enable for that? Uh, there's still a lot of work to be done here. So it's I wouldn't say that like stablecoins are a panacea that's been well adopted by the space. There's tons of work to be done to um actually like leverage this technology technology to improve those acute pain points that I alluded to. Um but what they enable is the the removal of, or rather the possible replacement of that last uh or like low-level settlement leg with a type of settlement that happens 24-7 because it's happening on the internet versus through like old school kind of wire-based money movement. So um what does that look like in practice? I think it'll likely require um, you know, solving for like things on a market-by-market basis, for example. So um I've seen some startups that are focused on like this as it relates to like the you know, US to Brazil, like uh as just one example. But um ultimately like things need to be solved on a corridor by corridor basis still, but there's a tool through which you can um take something that works for a corridor A, maybe, and apply it or apply it to like corridor B, C D E F. Um Ultimately, like I think there's different nuances to how money moves across different system types, but I think that's a good example in card land, how um like money ultimately doesn't actually move when the purchase happens, you know?

Dimitri Dadiomov 11:28

I think maybe one thing to add to that is if you think about the actual practical like need that the operational needs of these teams are gonna have to like manage if they do this. Like so take Dan's example. Across, let's say a day, they're gonna like ledger and maintain this ledger of like all the transactions that have happened between, I'm just gonna make it up, like you know, two different countries, right? Brazil and the US. And then let's say once a day, they're gonna have to basically settle those things. So they have to send those funds over. They have to take that ledger, collapse it, look at the total amount, send it over. When they send it over, it can be going through like a correspondent bank, or there's, you know, maybe there's some delay. So now there's like a working capital issue, or there's just like a, you know, somebody has to wait, you know, 24 hours, three days, whatever it might be, to figure out what when it actually settles. And then the last, like, they have to reconcile what just happened because they're gonna have some amount that lands and some there's obviously currency that in the middle of this. So there's like four or five different steps where somebody in a very small level, somebody you can think of somebody having putting together like an Excel sheet of like all the different transactions, then sending it. The actual act of sending it through like a bank interface is not always the the simplest. Um, you have to make sure you do it by wire cutoff or what have you. And then once it all settles, you hopefully are you know it shows up on time as expected, but you have to go confirm that and make sure that that's like mark mark all those things as complete. So um, you know, obviously at Visa it happens much more automated at a much larger scale. But all those problems exist in almost every fintech company that we work with at some level. And so I think that and the underlying technology of stablecoins just like you know bundles all that stuff together in a way. And that's that's really powerful.

Dante Reminick 13:08

That's that's really interesting. So, Dan, you started your career in cards and then sort of transitioned into, we'll call it, you know, standard B2B payments. Dimitri, you know, you're I would say pretty cleanly in that treasury management space. Like I said, there's a lot of people doing those things today without stable coins. When you go and you talk to companies that are potential clients and you're juxtaposing this is what you can do without stable coins with you know FinTech today, and this is what you can do with us with stable coins.

One API For Many Rails

Dante Reminick 13:38

What is what does that conversation usually look like pragmatically? Like what gives you that leg up because you're using stable coins?

Dimitri Dadiomov 13:46

Yeah, so maybe step one is acknowledging that there are places where the there's operational challenges. And it's like, hey, if you're gonna move money between these two geographies on a regular basis, it's just hard to lend those funds in the US from the EU, whatever it might be. Um then the second thing is you look at that and say, how do you actually like practically do it? You want to have an interface that you're not gonna move 100% of your money movement to stablecoin today. The reality is it's not it's not like it works everywhere perfectly. You can have different banks, different geographies, different use cases, different like businesses are complicated. So you're gonna take some use case, maybe two, three use cases, and you're gonna basically say, I'm gonna try to like move that over to it. And so you want to have an interface that actually supports both fiat and stablecoin. And so how does what does that mean? Does it mean that you have a single API that can do that? Like in our API, we can support it's just like a payment type. And you can say payment type ACH, payment type wire, payment type stablecoin. And you know, we as you know, we can talk about it. There's a lot of complexity in the stablecoin world also of like what you know what what coin and what chain and what are we actually doing here. Um for a lot of people who are just getting into it, they just want to be able to like at that very highest level split the different types and then have the right interface and be prompted for the right things to be able to move money. So in the best case scenario, you can orchestrate that too. Like, right? Like let's say you have a stable coin that are uh a payment that arrives in a wallet and you want to disperse it in the US, you have to orchestrate that and connect it to like an RTP payment that goes out to a consumer or to a same-day CH or to a wire, you know, whatever the use case might be. So that um so the the practical conversation, the way it goes, is like, okay, cool. Like you have a good use case, you want to experiment with it. Now what? And this is kind of where we come in. Interesting.

Dante Reminick 15:40

And I I want to dive into those use cases, right? You guys just published uh a practical guide to PSPs in 2026, sort of an overview of what PSPs should expect from stablecoins and everything. One of the big themes of this paper that you guys published is sort of the idea that companies and fintechs used to operate with a single payment rail. And now we're getting into this world where you might have multiple different payment rails. And you mentioned, you know, as long as you have the right use case, this payment rail of stable coins is going to be beneficial for you. Tell me a little bit more about how you know if stable coins are going to be beneficial for one use case or another. Like when should you, as the CFO or CEO or founder of a company, look into whether or not stable coins are a good fit for that specific payment rail.

Choosing The Right Rail For Work

Dimitri Dadiomov 16:29

Yeah, maybe just to take a quick step back before we jump into stablecoins specifically. We we have this saying internally that you know payment rails never die. So when we introduce a new payment rail, it's not like you know, we've talked people have been talking about ACH going away and paper checks going away and all these things that that just have never happened. There's there's as many paper checks now as or close to as many as as there was like 20 years ago. And so um there are reasons for every payment rail to exist, and there are things about them that make them better. So like wires are better because they're near instant, right? They're probably like 15, 20 minutes, but they are um they are irrevocable. So you send them money, and if you want to buy a house, if you want to buy a company, you probably want to use a wire for that sort of thing. Um versus an ACH where you're collecting rent, you're doing payroll, it's much cheaper, it's batched, it's there's you know, there's things about it that make it much better for kind of the ongoing constant use case that we're seeing in ACH world. Um cards are obviously uh much more expensive, so you see a lot of small transactions going on cards, but they're like accepted everywhere. You can't easier to do. So there's there's a reality of a business that is like you have you as a CFO or you as a CTO or you just have to support a lot of different payment rails. And so in that framing, stable coins are not, I don't I think it's I think it's it's weird to talk about stable coins displacing any of these payment rails because even if they replace some volume, they're not going to truly displace any of these payment rails for a while. Um and so for for cut for in a practical sense, you as the um the operator inside this company, like, congrats, you just have to you just have more complexity in your life. Like, because now we have a new payment rail that you have to support. And so then the question becomes like, well, why? What is it, what are the use cases, which is your question. Like, what is it better than ACH at? What is it better than wires at? What is it better than uh cards at? And um and it's really this uh cross-border is a big driver of it. Uh irr- like timing is a big part of it. So if you think about b uh use cases where you need to be able to advance funds and you like wires don't work on weekends, right? So if your business has to um operate on a on a kind of irrevocable settlement that you know the funds are there, um all of a sudden that's really useful. So that you see that in in in in capital markets, you see that in uh lending, you see that in trade and like sort of supply chain use cases. Um and uh so and then of course there's sort of like the instant payment use case of being able to disperse these funds over RTP and do the 24-7 like flow into customer accounts and that sort of thing. Um I'll let Dan maybe speak more to it, but I just think that the framing that I think is really important for anybody who's in an operating capacity is like this is yet another payment rail that you have to support, and it's better than others, but your world actually is one of you know supporting different payment rails. It's the complexity is there. You're not gonna like you know completely display something anytime soon.

Dan Mottice 19:34

Yeah. I think what I'd add to that is um there have been a lot of startups, a lot of which, a lot of successful startups now that have been built out around the cross-border component of stable coins. Um, you know, and I mentioned that because they've now proven to the market broadly that there is a creative value that stable coins can offer. And there are either stablecoin native products that have broken through and established themselves as market leaders, or companies that have added stable coins on in a way that's complementary to the value proposition to broadly like make the market pay attention to things. So um where are they doing that? Agree, it's mostly in the theme that is um not only necessarily cross-border money movement, but this concept of like global by default businesses. Um it's it's funny because the global by default fintech has been a theme that's been talked about for a long while now in fintech. And my take is that until stable coins, that actually wasn't a possibility. Um, there's still a whole host of complexity as it relates to making a compliant, regulated global by default business. And like just operating in stable coins is not a way through which you can do that. You still need to work with companies like us or others to get money legally in and compliantly in or out. But broadly, I will stand by the fact that like stablecoins enable a more global by default version of fintech than existed previously. Um, and I think that is exciting and it's going to be very interesting to see, again, number one, what new breakout companies are formed built on that promise. And then number two, how much larger and more efficient can existing fintechs get by using this tooling? That is almost like a separate and isolated universe versus like the Fortune 500 treasurer or CFO or or uh the operator of like a massive scale payroll platform, for example, because um I think a lot of folks from competent customer discussions that we've been having with folks in that category are saying, okay, cool. Well, we've seen a smattering of startups that are breaking through, and clearly there's something there. We're paying attention now. Like we have an acute pain point where it's really tough for me to send money from A to B. Like, do stablecoins solve for that? Um, and a lot of our discussions in that category are centered around like what else we need as an industry and also as a platform to create to actually say with assurance, like, yes, you know, treasurer or CFO. At Fortune 500, it sure does solve that problem. And this also will work in a way that is travel rule compliant, will plug into your existing payment system andor is accretive to an integration that you already have with somebody like us. It also will plug into your existing reporting workflows. So it's like it's less to do with the tool itself, the rail itself. It's more to do with like the classic issue of B2P payments broadly, which is like, what is the context around the payment? And then how do I, as a more traditional market participant, use these things in a way that doesn't require me to like refactor my entire offering and like reporting system and reconciliation system, et cetera. So uh there are kind of like two worlds almost, is what I'd say. And we're excited about all of them. Um, but it's it's it's been interesting to see kind of like how each of them are unfolding with their own story, I guess.

Dimitri Dadiomov 22:51

Yeah. But this this global default story, like what it actually means is growth, right? Like that's what it actually means for companies. Like your your TAM just got, it's like whatever, nine billion people in the world now. Um it's not just whatever country you're in today. So if you think about, which is like something that you couldn't uh Dan's point, like you could never imagine building like a payroll company 10 years ago that was just immediately available in every country. Um, you could never imagine some marketplace that pays out to all the kind of open source contributors or all the anybody who's contributing, you know, whatever it might be on the on the marketplace. And it just like works in every geography. You could never imagine building a buy now pay later thing that works for across different geographics. So I think there's like something really powerful about that. And we're gonna see new disruptive companies coming up. We're already seeing them coming up and growing that way. And we'll probably also see you know some um existing companies really adopted and grow faster because of

Global By Default Versus Acceptance

Dimitri Dadiomov 23:49

it.

Dante Reminick 23:49

I I want to push back on that a little because I think like the stablecoin industry likes to say that. Hey, you can be immediately globally accessible and your payment rails work everywhere. And that is the case only if everyone accepts stable coins. And the truth is, like, every single business, oftentimes there's multiple parties involved, right? There's the customers or clients that are actually paying the business. They might have on the other side of the equation vendors or manufacturers or whoever it might be that they need to pay as costs for that business. And the odds that everyone in that flow accepts one specific type of stablecoin on maybe one specific type of chain is relatively minimal. And I know that you guys work uh with a lot of, we'll call it traditional fintechs and traditional companies who there is a 0% chance that everyone in their value stack accepts stable coins. When we talk about like going live immediately, what what does that mean? Like how do you guys deal with the discrepancy between stable coins are awesome and they're faster and they're always on and everything like that, with like the realities of acceptance and payouts?

Dimitri Dadiomov 24:55

Two things. One is one well, one is one is that it is it is available. You have to go instruct your customers and geographies that were before completely unacceptable to you. Umacceptable meaning you were not able to accept them as customers. Um and so you know, you are now able to tell them like this is the way that I can disperse funds to you, go open a wallet or something, and then you can get it. We obviously all recognize that's it that's not a good customer experience for a lot of geographies. But it does I you know, I I stand on stand on what I said, which is like the the capability is there for you to become global by default on day one, which is nuts. Like there are companies going through YC right now that have customers from like 50 countries. And like that's just not something that existed five, 10 years ago. So anyway, so that's like so now git now. Let's talk about like what is you know, practically in a B2B setting. Obviously, you don't want to be able to land those funds in the local kind of payment rate on the local currency. And so, yeah, there's there's definitely work to be done still on stitching together the set of international kind of domestic payout uh companies, partners, methods, et cetera, to be able to do that in an automated way. And there's a lot of people, including us, that are working hard on that. Um and we're not, you know, we as an industry are not fully there. But I don't think we're that far away. I think that we are we are at a place where in a lot of uh geographies, it just sort of works. You can find the right partner. It's probably not gonna be a single partner for the whole world, but but there are people out there who have stitched together a set of companies that allow them to have the capability. And we're just gonna see that get better and better and better. And obviously that's something that we're very interested in. Um and it works in the other direction too, by the way. Like there are cases like escrow that you know happen in the US where they might want to be able to take international uh buyers and receive that. And stablecoins allow the up the opposite of the money coming into the US into like an escrow account. Uh and again, like that is much more predictable and fast and uh easy to operate in a way than sending wires through correspondent banks across different geographies. So we're we are seeing people starting to experiment and use that. The connection, this is why the connection between fiat and stable is so valuable and so important, because you just you're like if you're a stablecoin-only business or a fiat only business, like we just think that you're gonna be kind of at a disadvantage. Like you have to be able to do both. And so you have to have a system to do both. But um I think that it's it's it's imperfect, but it's a capability that just didn't exist at all, which is just, you know, it's really cool to see.

Dante Reminick 27:30

Yeah, that's awesome. Go ahead, Dan. I know, I know you're you're the on and off guy. So hit me with your wisdom.

Dan Mottice 27:37

No, I I I agree with I agree with Dimitri's point. I think it's astounding to see and to have watched how far the space has come. So I agree with you that it's not there yet. We are we've made a tremendous amount of progress, even in the past like six to twelve months, right? In terms of um just how much easier it is to interact with stable coins and move into and out of stable coins and then spend a stablecoin on a card, for example. And I just think I expect that the the trend line will continue to exponentially grow as it relates to more usage and as a proxy for that, like well, rather as a representation of the fact that the tooling and the application layer and the orchestration layers, that all of which are required to get end users to use this stuff, are all rapidly kind of snowballing into this useful object rolling down the hill, right? Um, because if you think about like even two or three years ago, particularly like beyond that, uh or further back than that, um, the only way through which a customer could stand up with similar value prop would be to go to like all of the crypto exchanges around the world, right? And some did that. Um, and they've a lot of large businesses were built on that. But ultimately, like the layers on top of the exchanges, which is now like the broadly speaking, the orchestration layers, the banks, and like the license the money transmission license holders or other regulated entities, um, are all beginning to assemble like a cohesive layer on top of like crypto exchange liquidity in a way that it's just getting easier to tap into this stuff. So um, yeah, a long-winded way to say we're not there, but it's accelerating. And I think it's increasingly accelerating, like one month by month at this point.

Dante Reminick 29:14

Yeah. So let's let's double tap into this, right?

The Stablecoin Sandwich And Yield

Dante Reminick 29:17

I want to give you guys a scenario here. And it's a scenario that I think 95% of the companies in the world are experiencing, right? Let's say that I am a CFO of a company, my clients have never touched stable coins before in their entire lives, my vendors have never touched stable coins before in their entire lives. Like if I go to these people and I say the word stablecoin, I'm gonna be laughed out of the room, right? Is there any way that I can use stable coins right now in my payment flows, even if both sides of the equation are not stable native?

Dimitri Dadiomov 29:51

Yeah, you you you need fiat too. You can't just do stablecoin only. But yeah, can come talk to us, basically. I mean, we you need to be able to what you need to do is you need to orchestrate a stablecoin and fiat payment, either on the debit or on the credit side, right? Like you have to do an ACH, let's for example, you can do an ACH debit out of a bank account, you can convert that into stablecoin, send that to whatever geography and disperse it, or if or vice versa, receive stablecoin, convert it to US dollars, and disperse it into your own account. And this can be for various reasons, but um you know you're you're you're only gonna do this if you can start and end in fiat um as you were before. And so that's where the kind of the on-ramp and off-ramp piece is super important.

Dante Reminick 30:35

Aaron Powell So then in that case, why would I do it? Right? Like what advantages does using stable coins in that context bring to me as the business owner?

Dan Mottice 30:44

I think what we're seeing right now um is acute corridors and cross-border for the most part, where a stablecoin sandwich, as they call it, is a way through which value can be sent in a way that is either not completely impossible, but very difficult with like a Swift-based money movement mechanism, or very expensive or um not super reliable with like a non-Swift version, i.e., you know, a cross-border fintech payouts platform, for example. So there's definite uh value in people that are using stable coins for that use case right now. The other one, and this is a little gonna be a little bit more hotly contested, is there's there's definite interest in the rewards and or yield that could be received via holding in stable coins. And obviously, like there's a lot of work to be done broadly and a lot of discussions happening across Capitol Hill, lobbying bodies, various industry participants. I'm not gonna comment further on that, but we are definitely getting a lot of interest in yield generating stable coins. And that's um particularly interesting when you think through what can happen when yield can be earned on money in motion. Um, it's been talked about a little bit in the industry thus far, but I don't feel it gets enough attention because if you compare how yield can be generated on like idle fiat balances, that's interesting, but the money sits unproductively there, right? Um if you can be generating yield on a stable coin that you've uh basically sourced the liquidity for and allowed for it to be put on a blockchain, and then basically like the sponsor of the liquidity on that uh on the blockchain, if you will, um, it's really fascinating to think through what sort of um incentive frameworks can be built out around uh keeping money on chain uh when that asset on chain is in is is yield bearing. So um I would say like I don't know, like I'm personally super interested to see where that angle goes too, as that's more as that's better understood. And obviously there's a lot of question marks, but I don't know what that looks like from a regulatory perspective, but um that's a clear one where you're getting a lot of feedback around as well.

Dante Reminick 32:53

Interesting. And one of the reasons beyond the fact that you guys are very knowledgeable and handsome and all that fun stuff that I wanted to bring you guys on as the first guest of the show is because not only are you a company that builds out infrastructure so that other people can use stable coins, but if I'm not mistaken, you guys also use stable coins yourself internally, right? Can you tell me a little bit more about that and why you guys, as the people running the business, decided to use stable coins for your own business?

Dan Mottice 33:21

Yeah, I think the the main one we're seeing right now is is basically payment for our invoices and stable coins. Um so it's a broadly a bill payment workflow. Um it's a great way to obviously put our money where our mouths are. And there are customers out there who would prefer to keep money on chain and pay their invoices on a blockchain. We um also like thematically use stable coins as a way through which we manage liquidity for our own product capabilities. So more to come as the kind of capabilities scale. But um thematically, you know, managing liquidity in a stablecoin is something that is is um being aggressively explored and will be increasingly utilized, I think, under the hood uh for us.

Dimitri Dadiomov 34:04

Dimitri, anything you want to add on that? Uh yeah, you know, I think that the reason why we, in the first place, wanted to bring the beam team onto onto our team and really, you know, kind of um become more of a stablecoin company ourselves is because we think the developers are building with this stuff. And so if you just take a step back and you say, you know, do you want to be part of this or not? There's an element from it for a payment infrastructure company like us, there's an element of just like, that's what people are gonna be playing with. And they're I bet you anything they're gonna build some super interesting products that scale really quickly. And so, you know, we we want to be there strategically, we want to help those people and want to understand it really well. And so um, I think that applies to most other companies out there, which is you know, no matter what your business is, somebody out there is trying to disrupt you and they're maybe using stable coins for that.

Dante Reminick 34:52

Yeah, I think stable coins as a competitive weapon is a really, really interesting thought experiment to have because there's so many industries that run on airtight margins where they're just having these fees in their payment flows eat away at that margin time and time again. And I'm not saying that stable coins are cheaper in every single context, but there's definitely a very realistic world in the future where people are doubling their margins because they're simplifying their payment flows with stable coins, even if they're still using fiat at some point in that payment flow, if you will.

Dimitri Dadiomov 35:30

And I think that like the the Jeff Bezos quote of like, you know, your margin is my opportunity applies here. There's a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of margin in the payments world. There's a lot of intermediaries. And um then stable coins might help collapse some of that.

Dante Reminick 35:46

Yeah, I I think they will, and I sure hope they do. I mean, Dan, to your point where everything is changing month by month, I cannot keep track with the amount of developments that are actually happening uh in the space. And I think that's a good thing because a client could come to you today and you know it might not work out, and then in you know, three months the capabilities of modern treasury and the capabilities of stable coins are are a lot more advanced. So it's it's exciting for me to

Start Small And Learn Fast

Dante Reminick 36:12

see that. I want to go back to that example where you know I'm a traditional founder, a traditional CEO, CFO running my company. The the advice that you guys would give to me as I'm thinking about how to develop my stable coin strategy. Obviously, you have these conversations every single day, but what what have you seen work? Like what did my what should my thought process be as I go about thinking how do I use stable coins? Where should stable coins play a role in i business?

Dan Mottice 36:39

I think from my perspective, like putting aside the people that have already bought into the the value prop and maybe already experienced it firsthand for the the kind of newer entrant into this, newer entrant into the space. Um my feedback is start small and start with the corporate treasury use case. Um find a maybe it's a particularly acute vendor payment flow, for example, where you have to pay somebody uh and it's a kind of a pain in the butt every single month to do so. Yeah, and and that that person's in another country, for example. Like, could you see if there's a world in which stablecoins stop for that? Um, is there a world in which you as a treasury team are comfortable trying to park some portion of your working capital or cash in a stablecoin or not? Um or maybe something that some like I've never thought of, and somebody in the audience this will resonate with them. But starting small before you expose your broader like ecosystem to the tool is definitely something that we've seen work because if you can get uh you know a CFO comfortable with it or a treasury team comfortable with it and get the initial snowball going, not to bring that back, but snowball going for internal use cases, it's easier to then think through and explain, hmm, maybe there's something here where I could arm my customers with this tooling. Um but it allows for them to basically like contain the risk of introducing some new shock to the system. Um so yeah, contain pilots, um, start small and then learn as you go. It's kind of all you can ask.

Dante Reminick 38:07

Metrich, anything you want to add there?

Dimitri Dadiomov 38:09

Uh the only thing I'd add is like I think talking about strategy is like the the probably the Achilles heel of a lot of those teams. So part of it is just like don't talk about strategy, just do something, right? Like build, open an account, park some cash in a stable coin, get whatever yield you can, and then find a dispersal that just works. And you know, it's like we we're seeing companies have some cash parked in some account that's in stable coins, and they're able to do like RTP and FedNow and wire dispersals. And is it like solving a problem in a way that is like life-changing for you? Probably not, but it's getting you really comfortable with these tools, and it's gonna get your your finance team that's comfortable with like figuring out how to report on this uh this activity. It's maybe allowing you to get like two or three more days of yield because you can do an instant payout instead of some sort of like you know, ACH flow that you have to initiate earlier. Um so those types of things are are really meaningful. So again, like I think that there's a lot of theory around like where exactly is this useful. But the reality is like most companies have zero experience actually using it. And so just try it out. It's a little bit like, well, you know, you hear that kind of similar, um, similar conversation happening around AI where it's like, you know, is it going to be like way easier for you on day one? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just like a fun toy to play with. But you better believe that the efficiency of that is gonna really hit you in, you know, in a year's time, uh, once you're just like comfortable with the tools and and you have the kind of organization-wide comfortable with them, and and it and all of a sudden it enables whole new businesses for you, or all of a sudden you can grow in different geographies, and all of a sudden these things that you've talked about and you just can't do, you are able to consider and actually operationally try.

Dante Reminick 39:56

Yeah, I love it. So I think we've gone over like what the opportunity of stablecoins is really well. I also recognize that as a founder, I need to consider the risks of doing

Compliance Reality After The Genius Act

Dante Reminick 40:08

so. Naturally, if I'm gonna convince people to use stable coins within my business, I'm gonna have to run it by the lawyers and the compliance team. Is is all this legal? Is all this stuff compliant? How how should I be thinking about that? Because it sounds very scary.

Dimitri Dadiomov 40:22

Yeah, I mean, I think it's uh we we've now have legislation. So I think a big part of what happened over the past year, you know, or not even a year, since since the Genius Act passed, is really owned to the fact that there's a lot more clarity about what is going on with um with stablecoins in the US. Um I think you should consult your lawyers. Again, it goes back to my point. Like you have to get comfortable with it. These are new concepts, so your organization has to learn how to deal with it. Um so yes, you know, it is it is legal in the vast majority of use cases. Um there are things you can do that can get you in trouble if you don't work with partners that have the right compliance posture and all that. So you should be careful about it. It's no different than working with financial institutions or you know, other providers of of of tools and so on. Um I just go back to like I think that there's this a lot of companies have a hard time getting going. And you can come up with all kinds of reasons why you're not sure. Like, yes, of course, make run by your legal team and make sure that you're not doing something illegal. But that that's not a stablecoin thing. That's true for everything your company does. You should make sure it's not illegal. So um, you know, it's not it's not to me, that's not a very, you know, it's not a very valid reason to like prevent a company from trying out stable coin things.

Dante Reminick 41:39

And wink wink, nudge nudge, modern treasury has a great compliance team and everything they do is legal, right?

Dan Mottice 41:46

Love it. I Dante, just I just add one thing to that. There are existing frameworks, particularly in cross-border payments, but in payments and financial services broadly, that will apply and do apply to stablecoins. So it's not like we're necessarily reinventing the wheel. We're plugging in a new primitive that makes money movement better. And there are ways to which you can use old tools, and there's ways to which those rules that were built out around the old tools will apply to the new tools. And so things like KYC, things like AML, things like screening, et cetera, like there are tools to which you can build a compliance program. And then, yes, to your point, like there are also partners like Modern Treasury or others that you could partner with to help with a lot of that stuff. And we've invested significantly into that. But um, yeah, I think the notion that like stable coins are this kind of like scary illegal tool, or I think that's an easier one to counter these days uh than it than it used to be. I mean, I mean, like two years ago, would 100% agree it was is much tougher, but I think the industry's overcome that one for the most part. But there have been some hiccups and some flips along the way. Very big hiccups and flips.

Dante Reminick 42:54

Love it. Love it. Well, I've been able to leech you guys of your knowledge and information for a while now.

Modern Treasury Payments And What’s Next

Dante Reminick 43:00

I also want to give you the opportunity to tell folks a little bit about what to expect uh from modern treasury, both now and maybe any recent developments that you want to mention here.

Dan Mottice 43:11

Lot more to come. I think we have been heads down integrating Beam into the Modern Treasury platform for probably like the last six or so months. Beam is a big part of the new offering that we took to or we announced about a month ago now, called Modern Treasury Payments. Um, the kind of takeaway there is that stable coins are what we call a first-class rail in the in our in our payment services offering. And companies that come to us to use this for an ACH debited and wire-based flow could also, by default, use us for stablecoin flows. But I guess the the takeaway here is that we're investing in both sides of the stack. Now, as it relates to stable coins, we have a lot more coming. Um, as it relates to how kind of easy it is to get going, of course, what it looks like to use a platform like us to create and manage wallets for your. Users, um, how cheaply and quickly money can be moved from fiat into stable coins and back, or maybe stable coin A to B to C to E, uh, all within the platform. Um, and and we're all we're very, very keenly looking at other ways through which um we can bring capabilities in-house that um make us kind of a one-stop shop for what broadly people are calling stablecoin orchestration. Um but the the kicker there is we are best suited when people have complicated fiat money movement alongside their stablecoin orchestration needs. Um much more to come as it relates to cross-border work over you know over the next several phases of the of the platform as well. Um and yeah, if we can hop on the pod in six months, hopefully we have you know more awesome customer examples that we can speak to and double-click on. But um, yeah, we're we're pouring our our blood, sweat, and tears into this thing, and we're we're confident that what we're building is gonna be uh uh helpful to people getting into the space.

Dante Reminick 44:59

I love it. Well, you can count on the fact that you'll be on again uh in the next six months. I also, just for our audience members, Dan and Dimitri are way too humble. Modern Treasury is an awesome platform. I'm not being paid to say this. They're not sponsors in any way, shape, or form, but I have seen a lot of really successful use cases of founders and companies that have never touched stable coins, have never touched blockchain Rails at all, be really successful optimizing their flows with Modern Treasury. So they're far too humble. Um but Dan, Dimitri, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. Uh again, for our audience members, I hope that you enjoyed the conversation and learned a lot. Please don't forget to follow our show on whatever platform you're listening on. And be sure to keep tabs on Modern Treasury on all of the social platforms as well. Um, and keep in touch with all the amazing solutions they're building. So for for now, stay stable.